The Boy Scouts compromise, homosexual boys, okay, gay adult scout leaders, no. More states approve same-sex marriage. So are you an ignorant bigot if you hold a different view especially if your view is based on religious belief? There are limits on constitutional freedom of speech and exercise of religion but they are narrowly defined – falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater, denying a child life a saving blood transfusion, for example. If you are ambivalent, confused or mind made up on the issue, read:“Speaking of Homosexuality”. I don’t expect to change anyone’s opinion but I do think the article is well within the bounds of free speech and makes cogent arguments for long-standing traditional belief.
Archive for the ‘Religion’ Category
Orthodoxy, sex, theology
Orthodoxy, sex, theology
Posted by Warren Peterson on May 27, 2013
Posted by Warren Peterson on February 26, 2013
Thousands of books and sermons have addressed the question, “Why do bad things happen to good people?” It is an impossible question to answer. Atheists say the very question disproves the existence of God while some religious answers blame evil resulting from mankind’s choice in the Garden of Eden (actually or metaphorically). Perhaps we are asking the wrong question. It is not “why” but what we do about it when life’s challenges come.
If you have about 25 minutes to explore this alternate question:
Scroll down to:
“An Impossible Challenge”
February 24/ George Hinman
Click on: Download audio
Posted by Warren Peterson on October 30, 2012
Three states will vote November 6 on the issue of same sex marriage. In the State of Washington, the legislature passed a bill that would allow same sex couples to marry. The vote was 28 to 21 in the Senate and 55 to 43 in the House. Well more than enough signatures were gathered to place Referendum 74 on the ballot. It asks voters to approve or reject the legislature’s action.
Approve 74, it’s a matter of fairness. Reject 74, the social cost is too high. Commentator Dennis Prager makes some interesting points in his recent article, “Why a good person can vote against same sex marriage.” To read it, click
Posted by Warren Peterson on July 11, 2012
1. Why does God allow bad things to happen?
2. What does the Bible teach about sex?
3. Is spirituality a property of the brain?
4. What does Jesus think of other religions?
George Hinman, Senior Pastor at Seattle’s University Presbyterian Church tackles each of these questions in a sermon series titled, “Good Question”. Each one takes about 30 minutes to listen to, time well spent.
Click HERE, scroll down to blue box “Sunday Sermons” and select your question (may have to scroll down to see all four).
Posted by Warren Peterson on April 9, 2012
Click Here then in the box on the right, click on “The Meaning of Easter” (or find it by clicking on Archives in upper left hand corner of the box) and listen to the audio. Enjoy.
Posted by Warren Peterson on January 25, 2012
Dear Rabbi Glickman,
You are like so many from the liberal side of Judaism and Christianity. If you find something in the Bible that makes you uncomfortable you go to all manner of theological contortions to prove the opposite of what it says. Your Faith & Values column on homosexuality and same sex marriage in the January 21, 2012 Seattle Times demonstrates this point.
First you claim, “very few people have thought to look carefully at what the Bible actually says.” I refer you to http://clearfogblog.wordpress.com/category/religion/where you will find writings on homosexuality from two mainstream protestant pastors that make the case for including homosexuality in the long list of sins. Also included are my own humble concerns about the consequences of acceptance of the viewpoint you hold. I am quite sure a simple web search would turn up numerous other “careful looks” by theologians with a position opposite yours.
You stated that homosexual behavior is only mentioned twice in the Jewish Bible. So how many times does a sin have to be mentioned to qualify as a sin? The New Testament has several references, is that enough? You noted that your “Bible only discusses sexual contact between two men” and then leap to the conclusion that there is “no prohibition whatsoever of lesbianism.” Surely you know that the status of women in biblical times often precluded mention of them at all.
The most laughable assertions followed your translation of the Hebrew word “mishk’vei-ishah” as “woman-laying” as possibly referring to “…the Bible.. prohibiting certain sexual positions”, men conquering women or my favorite, “Maybe the Bible just wants homosexual activity to be different from heterosexual activity.” Yes it does and that’s why it is called out as sin.
Earl Palmer, former Senior Pastor of the University Presbyterian Church in Seattle cautioned that in interpreting the Scriptures, “Lean is best.” Biblical verses need to be read in context. The history and overall message of the Bible as well as the surrounding verses need to be considered but not twisted to fit the desires on the day. In this light, the Bible honors the male/female relationship from Adam and Eve (Genesis 2: 18-24) through Solomon’s “Song of Songs”, Proverbs 31: 10-31 and even Hosea who stayed faithful to his prostitute wife. The New Testament continues in the same vein. No where does either the Old or New Testament exalt, honor or approve explicitly, or any but the most contorted interpretation, same sex marriage or the practice of homosexuality.
I do agree, “it would be (a) good thing for us to be nice and get along.” However, one sometimes has to take a stand on moral ground. I just think you stand on liberal shifting sand rather than the rock of Scripture, old or new.
A fellow believer,
Posted by Warren Peterson on September 8, 2010
Thanks to SP for sending me the below thought provoking blog from rottenindenmark:
Why the American Left Drags Its Feet on Gay Rights
By: Mike Babb
One thing I couldn’t get over when I first moved here was how politically diverse the gays are. Some of them are left-wing, some of them are right-wing. Some of them are racist, some of them are patronizingly inclusive. ‘Jesus,’ I remember saying on one of my first weekends, ‘It’s like being gay doesn’t even mean anything.’
And it doesn’t, really. Gay marriage has been legal in Denmark for 20 years, and gayness has been a political non-starter so long that politicians have to be asked about it, and then they all give pretty much the same answer. Anti-gay sentiment isn’t completely banished, but you hear it come up about as much as you hear about, say, the flat tax in America. It’s there, but it’s not a divisive issue in many races or party manifestos.
In other words, gays have no built-in incentive to be left-wing. In America, gays are mainly limited to the blue end of the spectrum because the right-wing wants to actively curtail their rights and reduce their quality of life. For gays, self-preservation trumps the economic and social issues that most other citizens vote on.
If gay marriage gets legalized in the States, after a few political aftershocks, I think a lot of gays would start to migrate rightward. It would be slow, but in the long-term gays might even be a reliable Republican voting bloc. Gays tend to be affluent, and eventually, the dimensions of self-preservation would warp to exclude Oppressed Minority and include Yuppie Wealth Preserver.
I wonder if American left-wing politicians know this, and this is part of why they don’t grant full civil rights to homosexuals. As long as we’re second-class citizens and one of the parties is slightly better than the other, they can take us for granted. Giving us full marriage rights would effectively put both parties back at Go, and they would have to compete for our votes.
I’ve been wondering that this year, as the promises made during the presidential campaign haven’t materialized, and as the Democrats face the loss of the majority that would have made pro-gay legislation reasonably easy to enact. It’s about time we started asking whether it wasn’t the opportunity that passed, but the politicians.
Mike Babb graduated from Nathan Hale High School in Seattle and Western Washington University. He holds masters degrees from University College London and Aarhus University in Denmark. He is employed by Danish Institute for Human Rights.
If Mr. Babb is right, Republicans are missing an opportunity to pick up support currently conceded to the Democrats. Capitalizing on that may be a ways off. Polls show a steady trend toward favoring gay marriage, but broken down by political leanings, religious affiliation and section of the country, there is still strong opposition. Conservatives, church attendees, and southerners are against while liberals, over half of independents, less religious and northeasterners tend to favor.
Gays are not excluded from the party as evidenced by existence of the Log Cabin Republicans, a vocal pro-gay group, the “outing” of known Republican operatives such as the former national GOP chair, Ken Mehlman and the Cheney’s support for their lesbian daughter, Mary. But party platform planks defining marriage as between one man and one woman do reflect the general view of the majority. People will have to decide for themselves if the same-sex marriage issue trumps Republican positions on the economy, runaway deficits, taxes, smaller less intrusive government and national defense. The latter should be the prime voter consideration in 2010 and 2012. The former can wait.
Posted by Warren Peterson on March 10, 2010
I have posted several writings on the homosexual issue. One of my postings generated a “trackback” which is a list of other blogs on the subject. This one is by a United Methodist pastor in his early thirties who serves a church near a Methodist college campus. The Methodist church, like many mainline Protestant churches, has been struggling with the issue for years. How should a Christian treat homosexuals when the Bible clearly defines the practice as sinful? Generally, the battle comes down to church policy on same sex marriage and qualifications for ordination as a pastor, elder or deacon. In my journey thinking about this issue (see below references), I think Pastor Brandon has come closest to possible common ground. Read his short sermon “Christians are Antihomosexual”. Do you agree?
Other Clear Fog posts on the subject:
Posted by Warren Peterson on February 24, 2009
The issue of homosexuality has driven some mainline churches to schism. Witness the outcry in the Anglican community over the elevation of a gay Episcopal priest to bishop. I found one of the better biblically based defenses of the traditional or conservative viewpoint in the below sermon delivered by a Presbyterian pastor in 1990. Also see Same Sex Marriage,Yea or nay?
1 Corinthians 6: 9-11
If abortion is the most divisive moral issue in America today, homosexuality is the most confusing. It raises the most basic questions about how our sexual identity and our sexual relationships apply to God’s truth regarding love, goodness and happiness.
In the short time we have, I want to attempt two things: first, to describe the Christian approach to homosexuality, and second, to discuss a raft of questions that arise in applying this position in our contemporary society. It is my hope that this will be a simple word of truth on an issue that has become filled with half-truths and mis-truths and fear of the truth.
A Christian Position
Our national church spent several years studying the question of ordination for avowed and practicing homosexual people and passed a position paper at the 1979 General Assembly. The produced one of the finest and most balanced brief documents on the subject I have ever seen.
The position paper draws the conclusion that homosexuality is not God’s gift or God’s wish for humanity. The paper recognizes that there is a distinction between homosexual orientation (an inner feeling of same sex affection) and homosexual behavior (acting out that feeling). But, whereas homosexual behavior is a sin, homosexual orientation is not in itself sinful. An avowed and practicing homosexual person, therefore, cannot be ordained into an office of ministry (deacon, elder, pastor) of our church. It does not mean homosexual people cannot become members of a church by their faith in Christ, However, as with all Christians, to continue openly in sinful behavior without repentance does mean it is not appropriate to ordain avowed and practicing homosexuals into the ministry.
How do we come to this conclusion? A Christian response to this or any other issue of human life depends not on survey results to see how many people are doing it, but on the Word of God. Let me briefly list the prime texts on homosexuality so you can do your own work with this question. There are four groups of scriptures that help us build a position.
In Leviticus 18: 22 and 20: 13, and Romans 1: 26-27, homosexual behavior between consenting adults is addressed and judged by God as sin. The text in Leviticus calls homosexuality “detestable” – that is an insult to God’s creative design for human sexual relationships. In Romans 1: 26-27, Paul says that God “gave them up to …unnatural relationships.” When people turn away from God, everything else falls apart., even to the point of unnatural sexual relationships between men and men and women and women. Paul’s reference to what is “natural” does not apply to the culture or to the individual but to God’s created order as male and female, and the “natural” heterosexual relationship.
There are two texts that address homosexual rape in the Bible. The first is from Genesis 19. It tells of two visitors that go to Sodom and are given a place to stay by Lot. The men of the town come and ask that Lot release them that they may “know” them. This becomes a heinous sin and the city is judged by God. The second text dealing with homosexual violence is in Judges 19: 16-26.
In our text for today from 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11, and in 1 Timothy 1: 9-10, Paul includes homosexuality in a list of sins that keep us from inheriting the kingdom of God. The Greek words used by Paul refer to the passive and active roles of homosexual behavior. It is important to note that homosexual behavior is no greater a sin or no lesser a sin than others on Paul’s list, which include greed, pride, jealousy and deceit. My guess is that none of us escapes his list.
In the above texts, considerable effort has been taken by some biblical scholars who want to defend the propriety of homosexual behavior to dispute the applicability of each of these texts to homosexuality, as we understand it today. For example, the debate on the Sodom text springs from attempts to interpret it as a reference to the sin of inhospitality rather than homosexuality. But, I do not see how any reading of Genesis 19 can avoid its clearly sexual dimension. The men want to “know” his guests — a term frequently used (especially in Genesis) for sexual relations. Lot’s protection of his guests goes so far that he offers his virgin daughters to the men instead, that they may “know” them. And Jude 7 refers to the sin of this passage as sexual perversion.
But even if we granted that all these texts were inadequate as a reliable biblical guide to judge homosexuality a sin (and I do not think we can honestly do that) we are still left with no text in scripture that presents homosexual relationships in a positive vein. And, even more important than all of these specific texts on homosexuality, we have Genesis 1 and 2 in which we discover God’s holy intentions for all sexual relationships.
Here is the norm against which those other texts are written and this text explains why all references to homosexuality in the bible are condemning rather than supporting. In Genesis 1 we are taught that God creates us, male and female. God intends us to be fruitful and multiply and sexual differentiation is essential to that task.
Genesis 2 tells us that Adam was alone, without another who was like him. And so God makes woman from man’s rib. They are therefore different but of the same substance. There is an incompleteness until we are not just united but reunited with this other who is like us in essence but different in form.
The one way this reunion takes place is in the sexual union — “becoming one flesh.” Because sexual relationships create an indissoluble and permanent bond, heterosexual marriage is the only justifiable setting for sex in God’s eyes. It is the one place we can be naked before the other sex and not be ashamed. In Mathew 19: 1-12, Jesus reaffirms God’s intention for heterosexual intercourse, enduring marriage between husband and wife, and affirms godly celibacy for those living outside the marriage covenant.
This is why the biblical list of sexual sins goes so much beyond homosexual relations as wrong. Any relationship outside the bond of marriage is less than God’s intention and design and therefore ultimately distorted and harmful.
How Can We Apply This View in Today’s Society?
Now, as I prepared this sermon and came to this point I realized that to state the case that homosexual behavior is a sin in God’s eyes is only half the task. I think we are all asking: How can this view be applied in society today when we are called to show God’s unconditional love and God’s redeeming mercy to all believers? Think about these questions with me.
How Do We Relate with Homosexual People?
Western civilization does not have a good record for its treatment of homosexual people throughout history. The most modern expression of this sad history has been called “gay bashing.” We all need to hear and live by the distinctive message of the Christian faith that makes such ugly treatment “detestable” to God!
We are all made in God’s image and we are all of exalted worth in god’s eyes. (Genesis 1:27) No other philosophical system or religion makes this claim. It is not a claim that can be supported by logical arguments. Economists are likely to measure people’s worth by their usefulness (are they productive or wealthy?). Moralist are likely to measure people’s worth by their morality (do they live up to our values?). Provincials measure others by their likeness (racial boundaries). But, God tells us everyone is of exalted worth in his eyes. We must treat every human being with the respect and honor that their created dignity deserves.
How Do We Not Sound “Holier Than Thou?”
Many people will cringe at the thought of calling homosexuality a sin as if it implies a greater judgment to the homosexual person than it does to the heterosexual person. But, when we address moral issues, we all need to be reminded that everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. (Genesis 3, Romans 3: 23)
If homosexual practice is a sin, we need to be clear that it is one of many sins, and not more sinful than other sins. Especially in the area of sexuality, we all fall short of God’s intentions and design. There is no room for pretending that we are holier than anyone else when we discuss sexual sins.
Can People Be Persuaded to Become Homosexuals?
Can people be influenced toward homosexuality? Is it dangerous to promote the gay lifestyle? Should society normalize homosexual relationships so that everyone so can freely express themselves in this manner?
In answering this question I found more diverse claims to the “truth” than with any other related question. I have read scholarly and scientific documents this past week that say homosexuality is an “inborn trait”. And I read scientists who say it is “a learned orientation.” This not only reveals the lack of information on homosexuality but also that “science is not objective” and we can choose those who support our views.
Let me tell you what I have come to believe. I do not believe there is one “homosexual identity.” Therefore I believe it is a tragedy when the gay community encourages young people to come out of the closet and declare themselves gay whenever they feel same sex-affections.
It seems to me that we would be better to talk in the plural about “homosexualities.” There are some people who are developmentally attracted to the same sex, for a while, and then they grow out of it. There are some people who are situationally attracted to the same sex, as in the military or prison or a close athletic team, and they grow out of it. And there are some people who feel that homosexual orientation so strongly all through life that they don’t believe they can ever shake it. But, it is a great disservice to young people in general to freeze their sexual feeling forever with an identity of being homosexual in the name of honesty, as if all the evidence is in!
Scripture tells us homosexual behavior is a contradiction of God’s created order. And we are warned about our influence on the lives of the impressionable. My fear at this point is that any talk of homosexuality as normal an merely an “alternative lifestyle” without any value as good or bad will only encourage those who are looking for one more new and novel sexual expression. I believe that some people seem to have an unchangeable orientation. But I also believe that there are many people in the middle of a spectrum of sexual feelings who are very impressionable, and they can choose their sexual behavior.
If I Didn’t Choose It, How Can It Be a Sin?
There is another spin-off to the unresolved issue of causation that goes like this: “If I didn’t choose to be gay, it is simply my natural way of relating, how can you call it a sin? It’s not fair!”
Is something sinful only if we consciously choose it? How can we know what is really “natural?” Besides, if we agree with this logic, we will have opened a new door to justify all sorts of sin.
When I lived in the Philippines, a man came to see me about his marriage. He told me he was currently having sexual relations with five other women besides his wife. And in all, he had been in such relationships with around 30 women. I’m not sure what he expected me to say. It looked as if he wanted some applause — but I could only ask him how he could call that good, let alone Christian. His answer was ingenious. He said: “It can’t be a sin, because it is so natural. I think God made me to need to love many women at the same time.” In other words: “Don’t blame me, God made me that way!”
What determines what is “natural” or “normal?” If I am naturally greedy, is that “ok?” Is there no standard outside myself to measure “normal?” Sure there is! It is God’s Word for issues of faith and morals, not surveys and theories. And when Paul talks of men and women giving up the “natural” for the “unnatural” in Romans 1, he is referring to the created order of God’s intentions when we were created male and female and meant for each other!
Isn’t Sexual Activity Essential for Human Beings?
Here is another question that comes when people hear that the Bible counsels only one life-style to Christians who are not in a life-long covenant relationship with someone of the opposite sex: godly celibacy. At that, people groan and cry: “But that is too cruel and unusual punishment!”
I believe this groan comes because we have all been unwittingly convinced by our secular society that the one essential ingredient for human fulltime is being sexually active. Sadly, we don’t even examine the thought. The Christian assumption is that the only essential element for fulfillment in life is a vital and personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Frankly, this may be the most shocking idea of this sermon for our sexually saturated society culture. But I want to challenge you to do some critical thinking about the lies that have been so cleverly imposed on us by our playboy society.
Can Love Be Truthful and Truth be Loving?
One more pressure comes to the Christian view toward homosexuality as a sin, and it comes from within our faith. We will all ask ourselves, “But isn’t the first calling of the Christian to be loving to others? And how can I be loving when I tell someone that their homosexual behavior is sinful?”
I think this is an expression of the powerful spirit in our society to be tolerant toward one another more than truthful. Alan Bloom’s blockbuster book, The Closing of the American Mind, documents how we have forsaken the quest for truth in order to uphold the social value of being tolerant. We have come to believe that the worst social sin we can commit is intolerance. And in order to be accepting and tolerant we must shelve our moral convictions and dismiss any thought of what is really true. Is there no way we can speak the truth without being told that we are unloving? Is love only wishy-washy?
Actually, I am convinced that authentic love can only be shown through being truthful. Is it loving to someone who is drinking himself to death to pretend drinking is good? If someone likes the taste of rat poison, do we stand by and wish him well? Is it loving to condone anything someone wants even though it may hurt him or others?
I believe God’s love is inseparable from speaking the truth. In scripture, truth is in order to goodness, and goodness is in order to happiness. The truth will always have a note of judgment to it when we are not following the truth. It can look intolerant. But God came into the world to save sinners. There is no greater love than this that Christ laid down his life for us even while we were his enemies. Jesus was love incarnate, but he never avoided the truth. Remember his words to the woman caught in adultery, “Go and sin no more.”
So, Is there No Good Word for Homosexuals?
Must we end in only hard words? No! Our text for today comes to a glorious conclusion. After naming all these ten sins, Paul reminds his readers that they “were” guilty of these sins. BUT — they “have been washed (cleansed), justified (forgiven) and sanctified (transformed) in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of God.” No sin is beyond grace, mercy and power that comes to us in Jesus Christ. He is the hope — for all of us!
Posted by Warren Peterson on February 18, 2009
Once again, legislation has been introduced in Olympia to legalize same sex marriage in Washington State. Companion bills have been filed in the House (HB 1727) and Senate (SB 5688) by State Representative Jamie Pedersen and State Senator Ed Murray, two “out of the closet” legislators from Seattle districts. With Democrats holding large majorities in the Legislature and the Governor’s chair, passage is likely this time.
The arguments in support of the homosexual lifestyle and same sex marriage are legion. Homosexuality is genetic and therefore normal. It’s a matter of fairness, equality and civil rights. Anyone who opposes same sex marriage is homophobic and hateful. If two people are in love why not let them marry and, if they choose, provide a loving home for children too? Considering the divorce rate, traditional marriage is hardly a virtue. The church should not set public policy. Even at that, the Bible calls us to love one another and not judge. Plus, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. And the GLBT point of view continues with variants on the theme.
Against this onslaught, opponents respond. There is general agreement that gays and lesbians combined total less than 5% of the population. As to genetics, there are people prone to violence and other anti social proclivities but society is not expected to honor their actions. Same sex marriage contradicts hundreds, if not thousands, of years of tradition and we should be very careful before changing a basic foundation of society, one man with one woman. While same sex couples can adopt or artificially inseminate, homosexuality runs counter to the need to propagate the human race and denies children the emotional and balancing experience of opposite sex parents. As we lower societal standards to accommodate homosexuals, what other rules of good order will we compromise? Polygamy? Free speech? Free association? The Utah ACLU already supports removing the prohibition on polygamy. The California Supreme Court ruled in 2004 that Catholic Charities had to offer birth control in their employee medical plans even though birth control is contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Remember the “thought police” that generated their own lexicon of “hate speech” that forced some universities to adopt ridiculous rules limiting free speech. Then there is our neighboring democracy to the north, Canada, which passed a law with a penalty of jail time if you make an anti homosexual comment. The Bible speaks of homosexuality only in the negative. Jesus never mentions it but he is recorded as honoring traditional marriage. Religious leaders asked him about divorce and he responded that Moses wrote law allowing divorce but only because man failed to live up to God’s original intention: “But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh.” (See Mark 10: 2-9) We all are born with or develop imperfections. We yield every day to temptations that we know in our hearts are wrong. Yes, the Bible says to love one another, but love does not trump the ideal and forgiveness does not abrogate high moral standards.
We have taken the Moses approach in much of our culture and we may do it again with regard to same sex marriage. But will same sex marriage as public policy enhance society or debase it further? That is the question.